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how to?

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how to?

Postby pclarke82 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:18 am

hiya guys, im going to view a few fronteras tonight, so i can check the 4x4 engages properly can someone tell me how to do it? im going to view a 2000 2.2dti rs sport.
i see there is a button to press but also a gear stick?

please help
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Re: how to?

Postby fatface on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:13 am

hi the button on the dash engages the four wheel drive and if you do this with the ignition on but not the engine running you'll be able to hear the actuator working on the gear box then the flashing green symbol on the instrument cluster should stay lit till you press the button again to de activate it also you can only shift the high to low gear stick with the 4wd activated in high easiest way to check its working is take it for a spin and stop the car activate the 4wd and the pull away do a wheel spin on gravel or something similar and you will be able to tell if all four wheels have drive to them !! hope this helps :lol:
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Re: how to?

Postby RatCav on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:44 am

As mentioned. Press the button on the dash with the ignition on and the dash light will initially flash then go solid. If it doesn't go solid the there is an issue. Press it again and it should flash then go out. If it doesn't go out then you have an issue.
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Re: how to?

Postby pclarke82 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:45 am

helps loads mate, couple of questions though, what is the low high gear for? which one do i drive in and when do i change? im usuming i drive with the normal gears as normal?

also can you activate 4wd whilst already driving?
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Re: how to?

Postby RatCav on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:49 pm

This is where things get a bit more complicated.

Most Japanese 4x4's (including the Vauxhall Frontera and Monterey) are part time 4wd. This means only the rear wheels have drive unless you select 4wd. The earlier A series Frontera's have a lever operated 4wd system. The later B series Frontera's have the Shift On The Fly (SOTF) button operated system.

Both are a means to an end really. The B series system is the most driver friendly (not necessarily mechanic friendly) as you can engage/disengage the 4wd as you drive, by merely pushing the button. The earlier A series system has to be done stationary (unless you have manually locking hubs).

The difference between 2 high, 4 high, and 4 low is as follows.

2 high: everyday driving, hail rain shine
4 high: used when the road is covered in ice and snow, and general off road conditions where the ground is slippery (like muddy fields etc)
4 low: extreme conditions where the terrain is difficult to negotiate and the ground is exceptionally slippery.

The difference between high and low range is in the gearing. This has nothing to do with the gearbox, but instead the transfer case bolted to the back of it. The transfer case is a box of cogs that takes the drive from the gearbox and engages the reap prop all the time. When you engage the 4wd it throws a bunch of cogs inside to engage the front propshaft which in turn drives the front wheels via the front differential. If you select the low range position on the second lever then a different bunch of cogs in the transfer case engage and this then in effect turns the wheels slower for the same amount of engine speed. This means you can get more delicate control of the driven speed and also more effective torque to the wheels meaning that you won't lose drive on steep slopes or really boggy ground.

This is a bit of a generalisation but for now hopefully start to explain how things work.

As a point of note Land Rovers are full time 4wd. This means that all four wheels are always being driven. They have a central differential that directs the drive front and rearwards all the time. This central differential allows LR's to cope with the difference in wheel speeds when cornering etc. When cornering the outside wheels will turn faster than the inside ones. However the front ones will also turn at different speeds to the rear ones (as only the front wheels turn into the corner and the rear ones will follow). This front/back difference is taken up by the LR centre differential. With a transfer case there is an even drive forwards and backwards meaning our 4wd systems will always force the front and rear differentials to turn at the same speed. Not a problem on slipperey surfaces as the wheels will spin to allow for issue when cornering. Not good on tarmac as the wheels will be forced to turn at different speeds due to the grip and then that will put torsional strain (we call it "wind-up") on the various axles/gears/C.V. joints etc until something breaks. Often however the steering will become heavy/solid and the truck won't go anywhere. It can be gotten rid off by jacking all four wheels off the ground and the wheels will spin untill the strain is removed.

Benefits of part time 4wd:
less bits being driven all the time so less wear
less bits being driven so more fuel economic
more direct drive to the driven wheels so better performance
if the transfer case stops working then the truck can still be driven as the rear prop is directly driven from the gearbox.

Cons of part time 4wd
cannot use 4wd all the time ... but if you don't need it why use it as you will get the benefits of the above.

Benefits of full time 4wd
you have that extra traction all the time which is useful if caught unawares by sudden ninja patches of ice

Cons of full time 4wd
if that centre diff fails you lose all drive
less fuel economic as you are driving the entire system all the time
less performance as differentials always sap power from the engine before it gets to the wheels (though diff-lock eliminates the loss by locking the cogs in the differential planet gears together meaning you get something more akin to a transfer case, however you cannot now drive it on tarmac in 4wd for the same reasons we have stated above)

Hope this helps.
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Hi-roof modification.
EGR valves and birds nest of vacuum pipes removed.
Front Manual Locking Hubs.
Rear Limited Slip Differential.
Yota Surf steels, with custom paintjob. (cheers Gregster)
33x12.5" R15 General Grabber AT 2's.
+2" suspension lift.
+3" body lift.
Cat 1 Thatcham approved alarm.
Irmscher wheel arch flares.
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Region: North West



Re: how to?

Postby fatface on Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:08 pm

god ratcav i was trying to keep it simple LOL next time i need to know something i'll just ask you mate :D
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Re: how to?

Postby RatCav on Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:23 pm

That WAS the simple version :D
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My members ride For Banshee the Trooper : viewtopic.php?f=46&t=34626

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Modifications: Its a Frontera that is heavily disguised as a Mk.1 LWB Isuzu Bighorn 2.8TD Lotus Edition.
Hi-roof modification.
EGR valves and birds nest of vacuum pipes removed.
Front Manual Locking Hubs.
Rear Limited Slip Differential.
Yota Surf steels, with custom paintjob. (cheers Gregster)
33x12.5" R15 General Grabber AT 2's.
+2" suspension lift.
+3" body lift.
Cat 1 Thatcham approved alarm.
Irmscher wheel arch flares.
Full body restoration/respray. (cheers Gregster again!)
Region: North West



Re: how to?

Postby fogman on Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:35 pm

maybe you should explain how the vac system works Ratty :D but then again maybe not :butt:

good luck with the viewing :wink:
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Re: how to?

Postby tool on Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:07 pm

hi just found this post and I seem to be having trouble engaging the 4 wheel drive system.
when trying the switch with the ignition on I can hear a series of clicks, but no light comes on, on the dash.
is there a fuse / relay I can check?
ive got a 51 plate 2.2 dti and it has several electrical issues, central locking rear wiper ect , not worried about these, unless there is a link, but the roads I travel over the hills in wales I will need the 4 wheel drive come winter any suggestions?
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Re: how to?

Postby fogman on Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:56 pm

you should at least have a light of some sort so ( flashing if theres a problem and solid if its working ok ) i would pull the switch out and check the bulb.
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Problem with 2004 3.2 V6...

Postby cbrady on Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:38 pm

HI,
Seems like after 30 or so meters the vehicle feels like the handbrake is engaged or the hubs are locked...forward motion is possible but laboured. Is this a symptom of 'twist' in transfer box or something more / less sinister? I did manage to drive whilst 4x4 engaged in carpark recently and stupidly I know!!
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Re: how to?

Postby frontster on Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:54 am

Brilliant explanation RatCav, well done that man.
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Re: Problem with 2004 3.2 V6...

Postby RatCav on Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:14 am

cbrady wrote:HI,
Seems like after 30 or so meters the vehicle feels like the handbrake is engaged or the hubs are locked...forward motion is possible but laboured. Is this a symptom of 'twist' in transfer box or something more / less sinister? I did manage to drive whilst 4x4 engaged in carpark recently and stupidly I know!!


Sounds like "wind-up". You won't get it if driving in a straight line, but if you start turning the wheel then it will kick in .. and quickly. Best way to remove wind-up is to put into 2wd and lift the front wheels off the ground and then lift the rear wheels off the ground.

frontster wrote:Brilliant explanation RatCav, well done that man.


Cheers :D
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My members ride For Banshee the Trooper : viewtopic.php?f=46&t=34626

My members ride for Leeloo the Lotus Edition viewtopic.php?f=46&t=60154

Deceased

My members ride for Brenda the Bighorn : viewtopic.php?f=46&t=54771
User avatar
RatCav
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Posts: 5554
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:20 am
Location: Preston, Lancs.
Vehicle Name: Banshee
Modifications: Its a Frontera that is heavily disguised as a Mk.1 LWB Isuzu Bighorn 2.8TD Lotus Edition.
Hi-roof modification.
EGR valves and birds nest of vacuum pipes removed.
Front Manual Locking Hubs.
Rear Limited Slip Differential.
Yota Surf steels, with custom paintjob. (cheers Gregster)
33x12.5" R15 General Grabber AT 2's.
+2" suspension lift.
+3" body lift.
Cat 1 Thatcham approved alarm.
Irmscher wheel arch flares.
Full body restoration/respray. (cheers Gregster again!)
Region: North West



Re: how to?

Postby RatCav on Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:17 am

My fault finding thread and explanation of how the SOTF (Shift On The Fly) 4x4 system found on the B Series (1998+) technically works.

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=44994
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My members ride For Banshee the Trooper : viewtopic.php?f=46&t=34626

My members ride for Leeloo the Lotus Edition viewtopic.php?f=46&t=60154

Deceased

My members ride for Brenda the Bighorn : viewtopic.php?f=46&t=54771
User avatar
RatCav
Super Trooper
Super Trooper
 
Posts: 5554
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:20 am
Location: Preston, Lancs.
Vehicle Name: Banshee
Modifications: Its a Frontera that is heavily disguised as a Mk.1 LWB Isuzu Bighorn 2.8TD Lotus Edition.
Hi-roof modification.
EGR valves and birds nest of vacuum pipes removed.
Front Manual Locking Hubs.
Rear Limited Slip Differential.
Yota Surf steels, with custom paintjob. (cheers Gregster)
33x12.5" R15 General Grabber AT 2's.
+2" suspension lift.
+3" body lift.
Cat 1 Thatcham approved alarm.
Irmscher wheel arch flares.
Full body restoration/respray. (cheers Gregster again!)
Region: North West




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