// Frontera Technical Support • View topic - Safe Driving
   
 

Safe Driving

banter general discussions etc

Safe Driving

Postby madchef on Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:06 pm

Following on from the debate going on in the lounge http://fronteraowners.co.uk/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?p=149288#149288

and some of the things I have seen this week thinking that as we are a "large " online community could we get together with some of the sites aimed at promoting young kids to drive safely.We ( most ) do some form of offroading
and this is a great way to teach them control of their motors.Get them to come to some of the meets and the likes.

I was shown a police skid pan when learning how to drive and also done a little basic rallying which helped me.

The reason for this,read my post about the junction in the above link and then think

The 3rd car to hit this patch was a 23 hooded herbert in a souped up Puggy with all the race trim but out of the ones to hit this skid he totaly lost control.Luckily no damage or injury but what about next time.Fast car and no knowledge of what to do.
If you think this would work ( form of free advertising ) replies please.Can get set up if enough positives.
Andi
Rising out of Bedlam and into my own mad world! #@~#

Image

SWB called Arfur Grunt
User avatar
madchef
my other jobs the GWR Liaison Officer
 
Posts: 566
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:31 am
Location: Corsock,Castle Douglas
Model: 2.5 TDS Sport 3dr
Registration Year: 1997/R
Vehicle Name: Arfur Grunt
Region: Scotland



Postby Drift on Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:10 pm

We ( FOG ) could NOT condone any form of training without public liability insurance ( which we dont have)

Also needed would be certified trainers and a full risk assesment, the list goes on.
Ste
FOG Administrator

Frontera Technical Support
Often Imitated Never Bettered

http://www.fronteraowners.co.uk
Image
Its here, the FOG Annual Meet 2014 viewforum.php?f=123
User avatar
Drift
The Man-ual
The Man-ual
 
Posts: 43955
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:20 pm
Location: Driftshire
Model: 2.8 TDI 5dr
Registration Year: 1995/N
Vehicle Name: Daddy's Car or Triggers Broom
Modifications: 2.8 TDI LWB
Tinkered to it's practical limits but understated, though shockingly cool (do you know her?).
She is nicccccceeee ;-)
Region: North West

Skype:Skype Me.!



Postby Silver Ghost on Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:27 pm

A few years ago, i spent a couple of years working in A&E as nightshift cleaner. so i saw at first hand some of the horrific car accident casualties, alot of them 18 to 21.

i heard the best thing to help this on the radio, they want to ban 18 to 21 year olds from carrying passengers after 7pm on a night, till a desired time they make up in the morning.

I think its a great idea, as most accidents involve teens, in high powerd cars and usualy with a full car load of mates, which i guess there was some speeding, showing off or racing their mates..

take away the element to show off..and should they then race around, they are only responsible for their own lives.

sean
Silver Ghost
frontera God
frontera God
 
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:41 pm
Model: 2.2i 5dr
Registration Year: 1999/S
Region: South East



Postby brachunky on Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:42 pm

sean42mc wrote:A few years ago, i spent a couple of years working in A&E as nightshift cleaner. so i saw at first hand some of the horrific car accident casualties, alot of them 18 to 21.

i heard the best thing to help this on the radio, they want to ban 18 to 21 year olds from carrying passengers after 7pm on a night, till a desired time they make up in the morning.

I think its a great idea, as most accidents involve teens, in high powerd cars and usualy with a full car load of mates, which i guess there was some speeding, showing off or racing their mates..

take away the element to show off..and should they then race around, they are only responsible for their own lives.

sean

The authorities should also limit the power output of the cars these new drivers drive, just as they do with motorcycles. This would limit them to the smallest of cars and in addition no power enhancing mods should be allowed(checked at mot time)
Martin
Image
User avatar
brachunky
Lord frontera
Lord frontera
 
Posts: 1671
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:15 pm
Location: Ilson,Derbyshire
Modifications: 1997 Jeep Cherokee 2.5 td VM
3 inch suspension lift
31 10.5 Muds
Safari Snorkel
Region: Midlands



Postby Wneiljohnson47 on Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:55 pm

I'm afraid I dont agree with banning anybody from carrying passengers. It makes a mockery of being responsible adults and youngsters will never learn to be responsible if we keep taking away their need to be responsible.

EVERY driver has the responsibility to drive with respect to other road users in ALL areas of using their vehicle. Some older drivers who drive many miles every year become blase about the roads and the dangers. They get tired and carless and then that leads to dangerous driving.

The answer in my opinion as per the thread last night. is more police on the road looking for more than just the driver who is speeding. The dangerous driving, use of phones whilst driving, non wearing of seatbelts and all the other legal bits of driving often go unnoticed and unpunished and thats why the A&E departments get horrendous situations to deal with.

Of course everyone on FOG drives and behaves impecably on the roads dont we :wink: :wink:
"metallic brown" 2.2eco LWB "A"1999 & Black 2.2DTi LWB "B"2003
ImageImage
the way forward is back the way you came
User avatar
Wneiljohnson47
my other cars a frontera
my other cars a frontera
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:54 pm
Location: Morecambe
Model: 2.2 DTI 5dr
Registration Year: 2003/03
Region: North West



Postby Silver Ghost on Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:47 pm

Wneiljohnson47 wrote:I'm afraid I dont agree with banning anybody from carrying passengers. It makes a mockery of being responsible adults and youngsters will never learn to be responsible if we keep taking away their need to be responsible.

EVERY driver has the responsibility to drive with respect to other road users in ALL areas of using their vehicle. Some older drivers who drive many miles every year become blase about the roads and the dangers. They get tired and carless and then that leads to dangerous driving.

The answer in my opinion as per the thread last night. is more police on the road looking for more than just the driver who is speeding. The dangerous driving, use of phones whilst driving, non wearing of seatbelts and all the other legal bits of driving often go unnoticed and unpunished and thats why the A&E departments get horrendous situations to deal with.

Of course everyone on FOG drives and behaves impecably on the roads dont we :wink: :wink:


What you have said, is true, we all get blase as you say. but most of that is sometimes lack on concentration, yes i agree with mobile phones, But not wearing a sealt belt does not mean we intend speed, show off use a mobile phone or such like, the not wearing a sealt belt, maybe the cause of more injuries, but thats after the crash has happened, wearing a seat belt is not prevention.

The limiting a car, ok i will go with that in principle. but what speed to we limit these cars to. 30, 40, 50. these cars will go between 20 to 50 zones all in town areas and just outside.

so lets go with the average 30mph. and the guy driving his limited vehical comes to a bend in the road. is 30mph still going to stop him rolling his car, when he should have took it at 15mph.

How could you police such a car, his dad would buy it, register in his name, insure in his name, add son as driver. now your telling dad with 20 years no claims, he cant have that car, for himself and to let his son drive.

the police side is ok, i agree with more police, but the police can only watch some many roads at a time. no matter how many, they cant watch country roads, side streets, estates. its not possible. and all these have the tightest corners, less well lit.

the only way, as we all know about teenagers and children for that matter..is take away the temptation, the reason. and in the end there is no point.

lets say you have a SON, has a night in, sitting in bedroom. he will sit quietly doing what he his doing.

lets say, sit the same son in his bedroom, with 3 mates around. i bet he acts different, you may have to tell him to turn music down, they maybe on the net chatting up girls. what ever, showing off.

sean
Silver Ghost
frontera God
frontera God
 
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:41 pm
Model: 2.2i 5dr
Registration Year: 1999/S
Region: South East



Postby meooo on Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:58 pm

Been through this with number 1 son (boy racer) and got the same to look forwards to with number 2 son (biker to be)
When we wrenched his motorbike off him @ 17 and got him through his test (first time) he got himself his first car (Suzuki Swift) which he proceeded to try to wreck......
Never hit anything/anyone, but managed at one point to destroy a set of tyres in one week!!!!!("No I havent been spinning wheels dad...honest)
Got on first name terms with the local cuntstabulary through his games.....threw him out because of it.......Police reckoned it woud be a good idea to limit teenagers to smaller engined cars.
"What size do you consider small?" I asked
"No more than 1000 cc" they said "then he couldn't do this sort of thing".....Suzuki Swift IS 1000cc......Police went away, sulking.
Even small cars can cause problems if the driver wants to be a prat!
If you reduce the top end speed to 30/40mph for new drivers, how are other motorists going to feel when they can't get past when going to work?
(ever been stuck behind a restricted moped on a country road?)
How would these kids ever learn to drive on motorways? you try driving @ 35mph on the m1/m6....you'd be locked up.
We all had to learn ourselves....we probably did similar things ourselves, but when I was a new driver (many years ago) all cars were slower/less powerful and there were less of them, so we could "get away" with things
I feel more training is needed nowadays for new drivers, perhaps skid-pans would be a good idea..certainly people I know couldn't control a skid to save their lives....but it has to be delivered by proffesionals, I now take my kids off-road locally and number 1 son (boy racer) has calmed down enough to borrow the Fronty occasionally, but I would be very wary of attempting to train others.....some of his mates are like psychos' when they get near a car.
Last edited by meooo on Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What have I told you about Thinking Erroll??
User avatar
meooo
Cookie monster
Cookie monster
 
Posts: 1140
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:46 pm
Location: padstow, cornwall
Model: 2.0i Sport 3dr
Registration Year: 1998/S
Vehicle Name: dead
Modifications: it was a Transglobe really
Still sporting Salisbury mud
front bumper teddy bear added just to annoy the dog
Gone to meet its maker :(
Replaced with a new Corsa 1.3dti (which is no good off-road:()
Region: South West

Skype:Skype Me.!



Postby rangaKoo on Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:40 pm

sean42mc wrote:A few years ago, i spent a couple of years working in A&E as nightshift cleaner. so i saw at first hand some of the horrific car accident casualties, alot of them 18 to 21.

i heard the best thing to help this on the radio, they want to ban 18 to 21 year olds from carrying passengers after 7pm on a night, till a desired time they make up in the morning.

I think its a great idea, as most accidents involve teens, in high powerd cars and usualy with a full car load of mates, which i guess there was some speeding, showing off or racing their mates..

take away the element to show off..and should they then race around, they are only responsible for their own lives.

sean


This has been done in Australia already..

P platers (those who have passed their learners licence and now have a provisional licence which means they can drive by themselves) are also speed limited.

Learners to 70 kph
Red P plate 80 kph
Green P plate 90 kph

Normal drivers can do 100 or 110 kph depending on the road.

Si
www.4x4search.org - your 4x4 search engine. 100% human submitted and edited!
User avatar
rangaKoo
Lord frontera
Lord frontera
 
Posts: 1194
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: Central Australia
Model: 2.8 TDI Sport 3dr
Registration Year: 1994/L
Modifications: Ahhh, now driving a 1989 Nissan Pathfinder that kicks ass!
Region: Southern England



Postby madchef on Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:55 am

Drift wrote:We ( FOG ) could NOT condone any form of training without public liability insurance ( which we dont have)

Also needed would be certified trainers and a full risk assesment, the list goes on.


Sorry.Maybe may lack of grammar has let me down again.
We are not going to TEACH them but SHOW them how to be responsible.
Reading through various sites on this issue they can provide literature and the likes as does the theory part of the test.That's fine.What if,like me Dyslexic,you learn things by being shown.Yes you can give me a piece of paper with words on it and it may take me time to read but at the end of it still not got a clue as to what it means.

My job dictates I have to " teach " people but as all I know is in my head I cannot actually write it down so prefer to get them to take notes and "show" them in detail what to do.
This thread is all about showing as an online community we do actually care for others.Taking a Hooded Herbert who already has a licence on a meet will show them how to respect there motor,respect others and how different situations change the way you drive.Show them that speed is not every thing.Cannot remember the proper term for this but if do then will let you know.
If we connect to these sites that promote/help them we get good press.If it works then maybe other "driving sites" will follow.There are courses for kids to "teach" them but some are expensive so is taking a passenger on a meet,show them clutch control,gears,speed,steering and the likes a bad thing?
I still am willing to be shown more about how to take my truck off road as I feel there is more I can do but is it wrong for me to ask to be "shown".

This reads like I am getting angry so better shut up.To much reading and trying to write giving me headache.

More replies please!!
Andi
Rising out of Bedlam and into my own mad world! #@~#

Image

SWB called Arfur Grunt
User avatar
madchef
my other jobs the GWR Liaison Officer
 
Posts: 566
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:31 am
Location: Corsock,Castle Douglas
Model: 2.5 TDS Sport 3dr
Registration Year: 1997/R
Vehicle Name: Arfur Grunt
Region: Scotland



Postby comfortablyglum on Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:53 pm

Its a good idea, and I for one am always prepared to accept that others sometimes know better than me..........

BUT..... With the way society is going, if something were to happen and it ended up in litigation, would you be the one who stands up and takes responsibility for organising,running the event, and then take the sentence handed down if it was found that you were liable?

Sadly the world seems to be like this nowadays, and I wouldn't want to put a downer on things, but I wouldn't want to be identified as a person in charge of such an event....Worse case scenario......You organise it, a family attend, a tragedy happens, Police investigation follows, court case for criminal element of prosecution, closely followed by civil claim from aggrieved family (No win no fee lawyers rubbing their hands with glee)
and if a criminal case has been proved, then the civil case will just argue about the amount of money to be given in compensation. You then find you are liable for that as well. (Most of us have families, and would never knowingly put them in danger, so if something happens due to the actions of others, I'm sure we would all be seeking compensation)

Would you risk all that you have worked for?

And all that because you had an excellent idea, but the world today wouldn't let you run with it.....

I would love to attend events such as these, but would seek re-assurance that it is being run by those that have experience in running such events.
comfortablyglum
mud splasher
mud splasher
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:01 pm
Location: Norfolk



Postby outergods on Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:01 pm

a couple of poiunt to make about the teen racer mentality. And i know this is a generalisation but.

1. they do believe that they can drive really well
2. they have no real understanding of the mechanical stresses placed on a car in 'race' conditions
3. The believe they have no responibility to anyone else. or worse, simply dont care.

Trying to teach or show a mind set like that is almost impossible. :(
Putting them on a skid pan would simply show them how to do similar in tesco's car park. it would teach then everything they need to know to show off more.

Ive got it comming in a few years with my kids.

I agree with limiting new drivers. limit the power to weight ratio of the vehicles. similar to bikes. dont limit speed or passengers. also make it law that a new driver has to display a P plate for 24 months maybe. and if they fail to. remove the licence and vehicle!

If we can have ours cubed for driving in the wrong place, they can have them cubed for driving illegally too.

We have a piece of straigh duel carriage way near our home. it has several roundabouts on it, and they TONK it along there, next to each other, under taking, weaving and straight lining the roundabouts. never a copper when you want one.

i can honestly say that one day i will probably end up T boning one of their little Corsa's or cleo's simply because they think they can nip out.
Might find i have a sticky accelerator cable that day............

Matt
2.8TDI Sport. - 3" lift, 31" Recip Trials, Roof Rack, High Lift, Winch.
User avatar
outergods
my other cars a frontera
my other cars a frontera
 
Posts: 283
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:36 pm
Location: Durham



Postby Silver Ghost on Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:51 pm

rangaKoo wrote:
sean42mc wrote:A few years ago, i spent a couple of years working in A&E as nightshift cleaner. so i saw at first hand some of the horrific car accident casualties, alot of them 18 to 21.

i heard the best thing to help this on the radio, they want to ban 18 to 21 year olds from carrying passengers after 7pm on a night, till a desired time they make up in the morning.

I think its a great idea, as most accidents involve teens, in high powerd cars and usualy with a full car load of mates, which i guess there was some speeding, showing off or racing their mates..

take away the element to show off..and should they then race around, they are only responsible for their own lives.




This has been done in Australia already..

P platers (those who have passed their learners licence and now have a provisional licence which means they can drive by themselves) are also speed limited.

Learners to 70 kph
Red P plate 80 kph
Green P plate 90 kph

Normal drivers can do 100 or 110 kph depending on the road.

Si


sounds like they maybe have the answer, it sounds a good system, and i hope the stats prove that. compared to ours,

I agree with the green P plate idea. as people here put it on just after passing to say i have just passed, which i dont totaly agree with for different reasons.

sean
Silver Ghost
frontera God
frontera God
 
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:41 pm
Model: 2.2i 5dr
Registration Year: 1999/S
Region: South East



Postby rangaKoo on Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:05 pm

If a driver FAILS to display his L or P plates he will be fined and given points on his licence... similarly if a fully qualified driver fails to REMOVE said plates from his car before driving he gets fined and points!! :evil:

It's a very fine line, but in Australia road traffic laws are MUCH more strict than here.. it's amazing just how lax they are here and just how little is done to enforce them (mostly due to lack of police on the streets because they spend all their time doing stupid useless paperwork). :shock:

Si
www.4x4search.org - your 4x4 search engine. 100% human submitted and edited!
User avatar
rangaKoo
Lord frontera
Lord frontera
 
Posts: 1194
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:18 pm
Location: Central Australia
Model: 2.8 TDI Sport 3dr
Registration Year: 1994/L
Modifications: Ahhh, now driving a 1989 Nissan Pathfinder that kicks ass!
Region: Southern England



Postby Silver Ghost on Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:17 pm

rangaKoo wrote:If a driver FAILS to display his L or P plates he will be fined and given points on his licence... similarly if a fully qualified driver fails to REMOVE said plates from his car before driving he gets fined and points!! :evil:

It's a very fine line, but in Australia road traffic laws are MUCH more strict than here.. it's amazing just how lax they are here and just how little is done to enforce them (mostly due to lack of police on the streets because they spend all their time doing stupid useless paperwork). :shock:

Si


we have aussie guy comes into our place, and your right how strict they are...he told me, that they dont even tolerate oil leaks on the MOT, and thats why there are not so many old cars on there roads.

sean
Silver Ghost
frontera God
frontera God
 
Posts: 779
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:41 pm
Model: 2.2i 5dr
Registration Year: 1999/S
Region: South East



Postby madchef on Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:37 am

Okay so it's not a good idea.Was not intended for multiples but as a one to one befriending kind of thing.

One more mention of H&S will drive me over the edge.Overpaid paper pushers who think we are thick. :evil:
Andi
Rising out of Bedlam and into my own mad world! #@~#

Image

SWB called Arfur Grunt
User avatar
madchef
my other jobs the GWR Liaison Officer
 
Posts: 566
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:31 am
Location: Corsock,Castle Douglas
Model: 2.5 TDS Sport 3dr
Registration Year: 1997/R
Vehicle Name: Arfur Grunt
Region: Scotland




Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 41 guests