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Swansea M4 Convoy Fuel Protest On Saturday Not FOG Related

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Swansea M4 Convoy Fuel Protest On Saturday Not FOG Related

Postby Reeco on Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:54 pm

Hi All, There is a convoy from Swansea travelling along the M4 and we are going to meet a heads of the Valleys convoy along the M4 and travel to destination of protest in Cardiff as one convoy. This has nothing to do with FOG but if anyone would like to be a part of the protest PM me for details. ATB. Reeco
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Postby *Sam* on Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:34 am

Makes a lot of sense that.......

Protesting over fuel prices by wasting fuel...... hmmmmmm :roll: :wink:

Not having a go at you personally BTW, just makes me wonder if there is not a better way! (Not that I can think of one!)
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Postby outergods on Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:29 pm

yes, the irony is there, but sitting at home bitching about the cost of fuel wont get anyones attention. im not saying riot, but properly organised protests that get the issue noticed and brought to the publics attention in a controlled manner can have an impact.

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Postby Reeco on Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:15 pm

Sam, No offence taken Mate.

I think Britain is a nation of lazy people who think the cost of fuel and taxes doesn't affect them when in fact it effects everyone of us but some choose to ignore it.

If something is not right ,we the people have the right to protest legally of course to show the government that we are not happy at the continuous rise in the cost of fuel.

I am glad the brave British men and women who fought Hitler didn't have the same mentality as today's population, as now we would be under German rule.

I feel quite strongly about this and if everyone in Britain, just stopped thinking about themselves for one day and joined the protest, a lot more would be acheived in a shorter space of time. The protests will get bigger but this will take time. Sorry to rant on lol.
ATB. Reeco
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Postby marlbororman on Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:22 pm

Well im at work on saturday, but if a protest goes through hull, I`ll happily join in in my bus :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dont know that the passengers will be very happy, but wont have an option :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Reeco on Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:44 pm

Hi Ian, " Dont know that the passengers will be very happy, but wont have an option " lmao. that's the spirit Mate. ATB. Reeco
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Postby outergods on Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:09 pm

Reeco wrote:I am glad the brave British men and women who fought Hitler didn't have the same mentality as today's population, as now we would be under German rule.


er.....um....er....EU?....er........ :roll:

Say NO! Say NO to unfair fuel tax. Say NO to EU meddling. Say NO to drugs. Say NO to your wife. but only if you like sleeping on the couch.

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Postby *Sam* on Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:03 pm

Reeco wrote:Sam, No offence taken Mate.

I think Britain is a nation of lazy people who think the cost of fuel and taxes doesn't affect them when in fact it effects everyone of us but some choose to ignore it.

If something is not right ,we the people have the right to protest legally of course to show the government that we are not happy at the continuous rise in the cost of fuel.

I am glad the brave British men and women who fought Hitler didn't have the same mentality as today's population, as now we would be under German rule.

I feel quite strongly about this and if everyone in Britain, just stopped thinking about themselves for one day and joined the protest, a lot more would be acheived in a shorter space of time. The protests will get bigger but this will take time. Sorry to rant on lol.
ATB. Reeco


I'm gonna play Devils Advocate here,

I read somewhere that fuel costs are still lower in real terms (inflation adjusted) then they were 10-20 years ago. This basically meams that fuel costs make up a smaller proportion of expenditure then it did 10-20 years ago. Also fuel duty is a tax (albeit a sneaky one that taxes the heaviest road users and those that choose to drive thirstier cars) if the government didnt raise money on fuel then they would have to raise it from somewhere else.......... probably by taxing the aire we breathe or some other ill thought out scheme......

Fuel is expensive. Fuel is more expensive in the UK then in most other countries, however most other countries governments tax different things at higher rates.

Personally I think that fuel is too highly priced, however I will pay what ever price it is because my freedom to use my car is very important to me. Also I would rather pay more for my fuel and have less cars on the road then have dirt cheap fuel and every Tom Dick and Harry driving about causing traffic jams in front of me.

If fuel goes down the government will raise the monies in other ways.

Having a car is a luxury, not a necessity for most people. Therefore fuel duty is merely a luxury tax.

Be gentle :wink:

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Postby outergods on Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:42 pm

*Sam* wrote:
I'm gonna play Devils Advocate here,

I read somewhere that fuel costs are still lower in real terms (inflation adjusted) then they were 10-20 years ago. This basically meams that fuel costs make up a smaller proportion of expenditure then it did 10-20 years ago. Also fuel duty is a tax (albeit a sneaky one that taxes the heaviest road users and those that choose to drive thirstier cars) if the government didnt raise money on fuel then they would have to raise it from somewhere else.......... probably by taxing the aire we breathe or some other ill thought out scheme......

Fuel is expensive. Fuel is more expensive in the UK then in most other countries, however most other countries governments tax different things at higher rates.

Personally I think that fuel is too highly priced, however I will pay what ever price it is because my freedom to use my car is very important to me. Also I would rather pay more for my fuel and have less cars on the road then have dirt cheap fuel and every Tom Dick and Harry driving about causing traffic jams in front of me.

If fuel goes down the government will raise the monies in other ways.

Having a car is a luxury, not a necessity for most people. Therefore fuel duty is merely a luxury tax.

Be gentle :wink:

Sam


I hate quoting an entire post, but you make some good points, however

[BEASTING]

For many families a vehicle is NOT a luxury. I travel 12 miles across rural roads to get to work that takes me about 30 minutes. using the bus to make the same journey would require around 4 changes and take around 4 hours. in other words not viable. and im sure most would agree they have a similar situation.

2 cars is becomming less and less of a luxury as parteners both work but almost never in the same or even similar locations. and even if one stays home, they need transport that cant neccessarilly be provided by the public systems.

Having 2 BMW X5's, or a pair of Jags is luxury. but you burn the fuel you pay the tax.

On that note i agree, fuel needs to be taxed and its fair that if you burn more you pay more. i'd be happy to see another 10p on every litre, if the dropped the Road Tax disk. for most it would work out within 10 Quid of what they pay now.

What i object to is that they add a levy, then add a value added tax, so we pay tax on tax. thats just wrong. Add a levy, be honest about it, and leave it at that. that way if the price changes its down to oil price or the retailer.

[/BEASTING] :lol:

Heres some cotton wool and tcp, go dab those wounds :lol: :lol:

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Postby Drift on Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:47 pm

Ok just a slight tilt the other way.

Fuel goes up, so does everything else.

Bus fares go up as they use fuel and no it doesnt get subsidised by the goverment just the same a hauliers fuel doesnt get subsidised.

Everything that touches a wagon, ship or plane will increase in price.

We are very very dependant on that " luxury " :wink:
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Postby billy.mc on Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:57 pm

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i'ld like to stick my penneth in, something does need doing as the fuel is not a luxury, small haulage buisnesses can't keep up these days esp when certain company's with depot's in luxenburg bring there fuel into this country cutting costs and forcing others out!! in 2000 i was charging 95 pence a mile on courier work and only made 10 pence profit as i had running costs ect, then large worldwide company's come in charging 45 pence a mile mean while fuel went from .72ppl to .85ppl how do we survive, it dosen't just cost buisnesses, it cost 5 drivers their jobs & my family their home as everything was secured on the house, no i am bankrupt with massive debts and not the only one :x :x :x
our goverment pushed people to start buisnesses then dump on ya from a great height rarther than helping out, something needs doing & i'm in favor of everything we can!!!
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Postby Reeco on Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:21 am

Sorry to read such a sad but very realistic entry, that's why I am going to protest on Saturday, my fuel bills are nothing compared to people who need fuel to run businesses.

Please remember if a haulage or transportation firm, go out of business, it has say 5, 10 or more jobs, the company goes bust, people may lose their homes and lively hoods. I am sorry, enough is enough. ATB. Reeco
Last edited by Reeco on Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Drift on Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:26 am

Good luck Steve 8)
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Postby Reeco on Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:01 am

Cheers Ste. ATB. Reeco
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Postby jond66uk on Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:13 am

Some very well argued points on this thread guys, nobody is happy about the price we pay in the uk except the truckers that arrive from europe fully fuelled. As regards transport for the british citizen, it's the low income people that are hit that own just one second hand car the most. It will not end because the chap at number 11 needs revenue. The more people that give up smoking and cut down their drinking means increases elswhere. Now we all know ELSEWHERE means FUEL and ROAD TAX because if push comes to shove, we will buy an older cheaper car so we can spend the price difference on the fuel. We will always find the money for fuel because of the so called freedom we feel in a motor (even if that freedom is stuck on a congested road). It's a shame that all the people who could afford to convert their cars to lpg dont, as that would shake things up abit :wink:
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Postby outergods on Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:15 am

We all knoe very well that LPG will be £1.08.9 as soon as the tax block on it ends in 2010.

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Postby madchef on Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:28 am

:twisted: :twisted:

Having read through this post I agree that something needs to be done.

Just a couple of things though

Fuel maybe cheaper than 10 or 20 years ago but hasn't the number of cars on the road increased ten fold as well,allowing for them to " lower " prices

Secondly WHAT'S A BUS?

Are they those things that go in and out of town to other places except where I live??
To get one of those need to find a way of getting there ( only 6 miles away )
Taxi!!!! That's £ 8.50 please sir.
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Postby Alpine_Skier_UK on Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:59 pm

One other point that i think has ben missed.....

I read somewhere that out of a price of £1.05 pr ltr, there is only 10p profit for the fuel company. Not bad considering the investment and infrastructure in place to provide us with the final product.

The biggest issue for me, and others, is that 70p is TAX.....!!!! Thats what needs to be cut. I agree that those who use it must pay for it.... (i did used to have a 3.2 V6 Fronty!!!).... but each time the price goes up by 1p at the pump, it is a real hike of 1.175p just taking into account VAT!!

I say, reduse the taxation on fuel. I run a small business and each week more and more of my budget is being spent on diesel... plus my prices have to go up to cover this... my customers also spend more on fuel... they have less money in their pockets to spend with my business... therefore i go bust and on the dole looking for a job!!!

Those who sit on their backsides and do not do anything about the taxation on fuel must be mad.

It effects us all!!!

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Postby *Sam* on Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:53 pm

Would just like to say that I dont necessarily agree with everything in my first post, I was merely playing devils advocate to open up discussion, and there are some very good points that have been made.

The point is that if the tax wasnt on fuel it would be on something else, and that is the most worrying thing.

I do however feel that the heaviest road users should pay the most, and tax on fuel is a farily efficient, but not fullproof way of doing this. Maybe there should be some subsidies for buses and taxis and other public transport, however I believe the government should subsidise rail travel for freight thus encouraging more use of the railways we already have. Lorries do use a lot of fuel, and are one of the heaviest types of vehicle and therefore probably the most responsible for damaging the major roads (ruts in the motorway etc), if more goods are moved by rail, with short lorry journeys at either end the cost will be the same if not cheaper for the manufacturers and therefore the consumers, and the government will save some money on repairing the roads which can be better spent on public transport.

The tax is too high, but fuel does need to be taxed. The whole system needs looking at, however fuel protests by the minority of road users (and you will be in the minority) will simply cause anger amongst the non protesting fuel users when they cant get any fuel. This is exactly what happened last time.

The only way to solve the problem is to vote in a goverment with a good transport policy, one which will put the freight on rails, provide better bus services and find a fair way to tax the road users according to how much the use them - unfortunately we dont seem to have a party that is in touch with reality. Rightly or wrongly we are going to have to lump it because fuel protests really wont make any difference.

Remember 5p on a litre of petol is only £3 a tank......

:wink:

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Postby outergods on Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:02 pm

and £3 a tank is £150 a year for many. but it hasnt been 5p, its gone from 96 /98 p to 108.9 thats 10 -11 p per tank and thats around £8 a tank full.

All good points above, and a Gvt with a real approach would be a refreshing change so maybe we should get the woodpacker party in.

If carlsberg did politicians......... :roll:


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